Wikitroid:Requests for deletion/Fune and Namihe
This RFD was passed successfully on 03:56, February 17, 2019 (UTC) by Madax the Shadow. Majority vote to delete the combined page. The article will be deleted seven days from closing to allow content consolidation. Please do not modifiy it. ---- |Requests for deletion| | |[[ ]]| }}}} *'Delete' - We already have individual pages for Fune and Namihe, so an additional page covering both of them for a single boss battle feels redundant. At best, this could be a disambig. --PeabodySam (talk) 17:19, July 7, 2018 (UTC) *'Keep' - This was briefly discussed around the time this article was created. In Super and Fusion, Funes and Namihes (or Fune and Namihe, whatever the pluralization is) are regular enemies, whereas in MOM they're much larger, come out of walls and have a larger role than as simple enemies. In this instance, since no other Funes or Namihes (or Fune or Namihe) are encountered in MOM, I would say these constitute as an individual duo of "characters", if you will. It wouldn't make much sense to put them on the separate Fune and Namihe pages since it's a single boss. This is the case for individual Metroids, such as the baby, the "Baby Metroid" and Metroid BR5497, and the Lab Assistant, an individual Female Fleet Trooper. A similar convention exists on Xenopedia: The Alien/Xenomorph in the first Alien has a separate article since it's an individual Alien, and so does the "Dragon"/Dog Alien from Alien 3. Point is, these are individuals of their respective species and so I believe that it should remain separate. [[User:RoyboyX|'R'o'y'b'o'y'X']](complaints/ ) 06:33, July 8, 2018 (UTC) *'Keep' - As stated by Roy. --''Madax the Shadow'' {ADMIN} (talk • • ) 06:27, July 15, 2018 (UTC) ::To play Devil's Advocate... we've only ever had one page for Omega Metroids. Yet, until the release of M:SR (which clarified some discrepancies as deliberate retcons), the difference between the four Omega Metroids in MII:RoS and the single Omega Metroid in MF was far greater than the difference between Fune/Namihe in SM/MF and M:OM. Four Omegas in MII:RoS were slightly bigger than Samus, could fly, breathe fire, and were immune to Ice Beam... one single Omega in MF was enormous, could not fly, did not breathe fire, and was weak to the Ice Beam. The four Omegas from MII:RoS were natural specimens... while the single Omega from MF was a genetically-modified individual. It is the final boss of MF and, to date, the entire series. It was unique enough that it could be considered its own "character" and deserve its own separate article, for the same reasons you give regarding Fune/Namihe. ::But we've only ever had one page for Omega Metroids. ::A similar argument could be made for Arachnus. Again, prior to the release of M:SR, one could make the argument that Arachnus-X was unique enough from normal Arachnus that it could be viewed as a separate "character" deserving its own separate page. Yet again, we only have one page for Arachnus. ::We also don't have separate articles for the first Plated Beetle or the first Sheegoth, even though both are instances of a single specimen encountered as a boss (complete with a special music track) and other specimens encountered as normal enemies. Though, admittedly, this argument isn't as strong because this is within a single game, and the bosses and enemies behave exactly the same. But, the point is to illustrate that a normal enemy that also appears as a boss doesn't always get a separate article. ::As far as repeating the same information for the Fune/Namihe article on the two separate articles... I don't see why that's too big of a problem. As they currently stand, the separate Fune and Namihe articles already cover a lot of the same details because Fune and Namihe are very similar enemies, even outside M:OM; sadly, redundancy is inevitable. ::Any thoughts? --PeabodySam (talk) 04:25, July 22, 2018 (UTC) :::You raise a good point about the Fusion Omega Metroid, and I've considered splitting it off into its own page. Even Arachnus-X could get that treatment. I'm not opposed to separate articles for them, but as you said, the argument with the Plated Beetle/Sheegoth aren't as strong since the boss forms behave identically to their regular enemy encounters. Going forward, this should be an acceptable policy. As I pointed out before, the Fune and Namihe are individual members of their respective species with many differences from their previous appearances. [[User:RoyboyX|'R'o'y'b'o'y'X']](complaints/ ) 04:40, July 22, 2018 (UTC) ::: I would say the difference between F&N and your examples is that Omegas, Arachnus, and Sheegoth are individual subjects being altered game by game (or in some, instance by instance within a game). Some of these alterations are just mechanics changes specific for a different intent/experience for each game (Omega Metroid/Arachnus), or for toning down the difficulty to treat it as a common enemy after the initial big battle (Sheegoth/Plated Beetle). F&N themselves are pretty similar to the Omega and Arachnus situation, except the fact they are two subjects with two articles and in Other M they end up being seen more as individuals than simply another member of a species (similar to the Baby vs. Larva Metroid but on a smaller scale). I would say that the individual pages themselves might be better as merged into the combined page since their own mechanics in other games are identical besides visual differences. --''Madax the Shadow'' {ADMIN} (talk • • ) 06:00, July 22, 2018 (UTC) ::::You mean we should merge the individual Fune and Namihe pages into the Fune and Namihe page? [[User:RoyboyX|'R'o'y'b'o'y'X']](complaints/ ) 06:40, July 22, 2018 (UTC) :::::Yeah. --''Madax the Shadow'' {ADMIN} (talk • • ) 06:45, July 22, 2018 (UTC) ::::::That's essentially what Peabody is suggesting. I don't feel that the mechanics of the Fune/Namihe boss and enemies in Super/Fusion are the same. Yes they ram out of walls, but these ones come out of the walls and attack Samus head-on. Something else I've considered, and this will go off topic - there have been two Queen Metroids encountered thus far in the canon. One in M2/MSR, the other in MOM. One was a clone of the other. We have a separate page for Ridley's Other M clone, so we could have a page for Queen the species, the Queen that gave birth to all natural Metroids, and the cloned Queen in Other M. They have different attacks/stories as well. Am I making sense? I hope I'm making sense. tl;dr Fune and Namihe bosses in MOM are individuals and should stay separate. [[User:RoyboyX|'R'o'y'b'o'y'X']](complaints/ ) 04:31, July 24, 2018 (UTC) :::::::On the contrary, what I'm suggesting is the opposite of Madax: splitting the combined Fune and Namihe page into the individual Fune and Namihe pages. The fact that Fune and Namihe are almost always identical doesn't really bother me, since we have so many Metroid enemies that are identical to one another (e.g. pretty much everything in Category:Air Hole enemies). :::::::Again, to play Devil's Advocate: there are a number of Metroid enemies with significantly different behaviors during games. For example, the Geemer of Zebes, Tallon IV, and BOTTLE SHIP are all different from one another, but are still considered the same species. A lot of X versions of common enemies (Choot, Yard, Sciser, etc.) have unique traits that are not seen in their natural counterparts. If we want to count remakes as separate games, then the majority of returning enemies in M:SR are very different from their original appearances in MII:RoS. :::::::Therefore, the fact that Fune and Namihe have unique behaviors in M:OM doesn't strike me as something unique about these specific specimens that distinguishes them from the rest of the species. Instead, it strikes me more so as Team Ninja spicing up the behaviors of these fairly simple enemies to make them more exciting to fight in a 3D space. If there were more than one Fune and Namihe in M:OM, I expect that this is how they'd behave. :::::::If the Fune/Namihe boss in M:OM was given a unique name (like, uh... Funamihe?), then I'd be more agreeable on the argument of these two being special and unique individuals. The fact that they don't have unique names tells me that there really isn't anything special or unique about them; they're just a random Fune and Namihe that happens to be a boss fight. :::::::I just want to warn you of a potential slippery slope. Where we will draw the line between making multiple articles on the same subject in different games? Will we have separate articles for every BOTTLE SHIP clone and X Parasite on the grounds of them being different enough (if not in gameplay, then in lore) from their natural counterparts? :::::::Regarding your tangent... just a minor detail, but the M:OM Queen Metroid is technically a clone of the baby, not the MII:RoS/M:SR Queen Metroid. Now, do we want the Queen Metroid article to be an article about a specific stage in the Metroids' life cycle (like the Alpha, Gamma, etc.), or do we want to view it as a specific character article (like Metroid Prime, baby, etc.)? I don't think either Queen Metroid has enough "character" to qualify for the latter, so I'm voting for the former (i.e. the current article, with both MII:RoS/M:SR and M:OM). --PeabodySam (talk) 14:42, July 24, 2018 (UTC) ::::::::You're right, it is a slippery slope, and I meant the MOM Queen was cloned from the baby, though she is still a descendant of the original Queen Metroid. A while ago there was a user who suggested splitting enemy pages into separate articles for each game appearance, similar to how the Final Fantasy Wiki does. But Final Fantasy has several canons, and Metroid only has one. I'm not advocating we do that. It would be nonsensical to have Geruta (Super Metroid), Geruta (Metroid Fusion) etc. When I cited the Queen example, I forgot to re-iterate a precedent of Xenopedia (the Alien vs. Predator Wiki), which has separate pages for the queen in Aliens, the clone in Resurrection, and the queen caste. [[User:RoyboyX|'R'o'y'b'o'y'X']](complaints/ ) 18:43, July 24, 2018 (UTC) Bump. [[User:RoyboyX|'R'o'y'b'o'y'X']](complaints/ ) 15:30, August 2, 2018 (UTC) :I would opt to remove the combined page that covers the boss fight in Other M in favor of keeping the individual pages. I mostly invest my time in the Kirby Wiki, and administrate there; the only times we have duo pages are when the individuals are almost always with each other, such as Lololo & Lalala or Mr. Shine & Mr. Bright. Any information that's on the combined page can be moved to the individual pages, if seen necessary, before deleting it. Iqskirby (talk) 21:41, August 2, 2018 (UTC) ::Here's one more point in favor of separate Fune and Namihe articles instead of a single Fune/Namihe boss article. In Super Castlevania IV, Slogra and Gaibon are fought separately as individual bosses. In Symphony of the Night, they appear together as a dual boss (like M:OM Fune/Namihe). In later games, they appear as normal enemies (like pre-M:OM Fune/Namihe). Yet, the Castlevania Wiki that I linked to only has one page for Slogra and one page for Gaibon; the SotN dual boss fight doesn't get a separate page of its own. --PeabodySam (talk) 03:40, August 4, 2018 (UTC) :It's been almost 3 months since this debate was started, and 2 months since the last "comment" (not sure what they are called on wiki talk pages) was published. Why was a resulting decision never reached? -- 12:10, October 4, 2018 (UTC) ::Perhaps it’s be best to directly notify an active admin about this. Iqskirby (talk) 12:50, October 4, 2018 (UTC) :::A resulting decision was never reached because we've come to an impasse. Iqskirby and I have voted "delete", RoyboyX and Madax have voted "keep"... and so far, no one else has voted or voiced an opinion. --PeabodySam (talk) 13:39, October 4, 2018 (UTC) ::::Delete - For the reasons stated by PeabodySam, I think they should be individual articles. --Dr. Anonymous1 (talk) 16:51, February 14, 2019 (UTC)